The ship of Theseus

[wolfinthewood]

Now the thirty-oared ship, in which Theseus sailed with the youths, and came back safe, was kept by the Athenians up to the time of Demetrius Phalereus.* They constantly removed the decayed part of her timbers, and renewed them with sound wood, so that the ship became an illustration to philosophers of the doctrine of growth and change, as some argued that it remained the same, and others, that it did not remain the same.

*Demetrius of Phaleron, c. 350–280 BCE

Plutarch (c. 46–127)

from The Life of Theseus

trans Aubrey Stewart and George Long


For more on this ancient logical puzzle, see S. Marc Cohen, ‘ Identity, Persistence, and the Ship of Theseus’.


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Comments

[april-art.livejournal.com]

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...?

I'm no good at strict logic. The river not being the same water seems to work better when viewed a philosophical or metaphysical idea rather than taking it literally.

If I replace the engine in my car, it's still my car. And with living things, cells die and are regrown and the plant, animal or human is still considered the same (although different in exact components perhaps!). In art restoration it is permissible to replace bits (I recall a piece of modern art made with straw stuck to canvas--the museum said it would replace each piece as it crumbled off).

Heheheh... Perhaps we should go with Artistotle and just say that the whole is more than the sum of its parts???

[wolfinthewood.livejournal.com]

I'm no good at strict logic.

Nor am I, really. Stuff like this tickles me, but I can't pretend to have a serious grip.

As you say, we renew ourselves all the time.